Well said Mark, I agree with you 100%. Another good rule of thumb is used by my (and many peoples) favorite radio talk show host, Colin Cowherd. It is... 'Say it out loud. If it SOUNDS like a bad idea, it probably IS a bad idea.' In our case, say... "I'm going to write hate driven, racist, insulting, ignorant comments on a public website for all to see."

That just doesn't sound like a good idea.

Cheers,
Dr. Chim Richolds

Can you post an excerpt to show this personal attacks? I doubt very much it exists.

Your reporter said some very mean spirited things about American workers (see you in the breadlines??). Her entire column was a one-sided rebuttal. It was almost like she was glee full that soon Americans would be out of work.

Can you please print the qualifications of this reporter to prove that she is indeed qualified to express these evidence less opinions?

That's funny, I don't see anything in her blog entry that says anything about the American worker. That entry focuses only on the responses she got to the stories that appeared as part of our immigration series.

As a matter of fact, the "See you in the breadlines" comment you cited was one of the e-mail responses she received, not a comment of her own.

As to the personal attacks, here's an excerpt from one of the comments I deleted:

"I just wish I would have the pleasure of knowing Ms. Foss when she loses her job. It's always a pleasure to see egoists like her fall because when they do go down they fall so hard. Hopefully she will lose her home and end up on the street to live with all the people who lost their jobs due to the reckless immigration policies that she promotes."

That certainly sounds like a personal attack to me.

I keep turning to my co-workers and saying, “See you in the breadlines, sister!” I’m sure it’s getting pretty annoying, but I just can’t stop myself.

Sure sounds like a comment of her own to me. It also sounds like a slap in the face to American workers that have lost their job do to H1-B/H2-B/L1/etc.

Again, if you bothered to read the entire entry, you would understand the context, instead of trying to twist a few of the words to fit your purpose. Here's the entire section:

"The angry e-mails also suggested that I would soon be unemployed, because an immigrant with a H1B visa would arrive to take my job at the Gazette, and these e-mails marked the first time angry readers have exulted in my future unemployment. “Pretty darn soon you too will be out of job,” one person wrote. “Newspapers are failing across the country. Maybe that’s what it will take to get across to you morons who can’t see beyond the end of your nose. Your repeated efforts to undermine your own country and fellow citizens is disgraceful. You don’t mind giving your own job away to foreigners ... do you? See you in the breadlines Sister!” This may be the funniest angry e-mail I’ve ever received, and since I have an annoying habit of repeating certain phrases and expressions over and over again until I get sick of them (just a few months ago I couldn’t stop saying, “I love you, but I’m not in love with you,” but that’s a story for another day) I keep turning to my co-workers and saying, “See you in the breadlines, sister!” I’m sure it’s getting pretty annoying, but I just can’t stop myself."

Now, whose face is she slapping other than the idiot who sent her that comment in the first place.

Here's the score, dude - If your argument is legit, you don't need to twist other people's words or use personal attacks to make your point. Even if your argument is legit, people are less likely to take you seriously because of your tactics.

To tell you the truth, I don't even know what your argument is because all I've heard is the personal attacks and twisted words. Meanwhile, several other people have used personal stories, statistics and other legitimate arguments to make their case and probably sway more opinions than your empty venom.

Gee, it would seem that calling me a loudmouth is a personal attack. Of course that's OK since you control the forum, right?

So, you said, "we do not allow personal attacks on staff or fellow readers." Fine, but you think it's A-OK for your reporters to insult Americans before the article even started.

Case in point:

"Immigrants make it all work"

Of course I understand editors often choose the title as I too have written published op-eds, but it was very appropriate for the tone of her writing.

If you don't understand what I'm getting at, you are an out-of-touch, so I will try to explain further.

In one fell swoop Sara Foss insulted Americans. We are not fooled by code words like this that mean "immigrants do the jobs that Americans can't, or won't."

Mark, did it ever occur to you and Foss that when you say that there are shortages of high-tech workers, you are dismissing and insulting us? Same for others like doctors, nurses, and horse manure removers. Now, I'm sure it didn't occur to you, so now you are being told.

I doubt many of us would have been so angered if Foss would have done the job of a journalist and did a little research on the entire issue, instead of giving just one point of view. My characterization of Foss as a hack writer sure fit the material she wrote. I note she has won various awards for journalism so I don't think I'm wrong to judge her to a higher standard than I would a blogger. Am I being unfair?

You say you want intellectual debate. That's all fine and dandy, but Foss started it off by spitting in our faces. Her "let them eat moldy bread" commentary leaves me to believe that was exactly her intent.

The problem with online forums like this is that they have the pretence of being free thought but in reality they are often ruled by control freaks. My first impression is that you were one of the freaks, but now I think the problem is that you guys stepped into an issue that is far more complex than you had imagined.

If you are wondering why many of us are accusing you and Foss for being elitist, I hope this cleared it up. If you care to do real reporting, I'll be glad to talk to anyone at your newspaper.

Rob Sanchez
www.JobDestruction.info

Dear Mark Robarge and Sara Foss: Just to give you a bit more background about "being discarded like yesterday's newspaper," I worked 11 years full time at SUNY Buffalo to earn my 1984 doctorate in radiation biophysics. I was falsely told prior to, and while engaged in the arduous work, that the US faced shortages of Ph.D. scientists. I had won a number of awards prior to that time, including a prize at the 1969 International Science Fair in Fort Worth for a 3-year long research project that I completed while a high school student.

I quickly learned when I was in the work world that such personal sacrifice was NOT valued. My job in clinical instrumentation at Technicon in Tarrytown, NY was abruptly cut in March 1985, along with half of the positions in the advanced research department. The company was preparing for a leveraged buyout orchestrated by Michael Milken that destroyed what had been a world - class clinical diagnostics firm.

I mentioned in my published Daily Gazette LTE that I have not worked a day in the radiation biophysics world. As an example of employer conduct, I completed a week - long interview process at Los Alamos National Labs (LANL) for a "postdoc" research position in 1981 related to my Ph.D. research. LANL is the premiere U.S. nuclear weapons lab. I received considerable positive feedback from LANL staffers while on site. Six weeks after I completed the interview, I was informed that LANL would not be hiring me. The program had been de-funded.

However, in 1978, LANL hired the ethnic Taiwanese computer scientist Wen Ho Lee, Ph.D. I believe that Wen was working under the authority of a H-1 visa. That visa program was passed in 1976 under the so-called "Eilberg Amendemnt" in response to AAU lobbying. There is evidence that Dr. Lee was subsequently involved in passing some of the intellectual property for the W-88 warhead to the Chinese Communists. (There were many other scientists and engineers recruited to LANL from Communist China and Taiwan subsequent to 1976.)

The foreigners were recruited because they offered to LANL administrators the "benefit" of being inexpensive and appearing to be pliant. According to CIA analysis, the Chinese Communists detonated their first W-88 warhead in 1992. They accomplished this feat via massive amounts of stolen LANL intellectual property.

(Part 2 continues below.)

Here is some unclassified information. The W-88 warhead is an ultra-compact high yield nuclear bomb that has about 1/2 megatons of destructive force. That is to say, the force of a billion pounds of TNT. According to some analysts, the W-88 is the "crown jewel" of the U.S. nuclear arsenal. This intellectual property theft (that U.S. taxpayers facilitated) is a metaphor for the loss of American technical might since 1976.

You may read more of the dispiriting details in my 2005 article about how U.S. colleges and universities have been converted into "Career Destruction Factories." http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/fif...
The missing table regarding H-1B visa usage by NIH Grantees is found here.
http://www.jobdestruction.com/ShameH1B/L...

As a native - born American citizen, I am angered by the conduct of a small number among us who seem all to willing to sacrifice this great nation for their personal gain. I'm willing to work "within the system" to use my analytical and presentation skills to reform what many characterize to be an insane situation. I have twice testified to the U.S. House of Representatives and twice to the National Academy of Sciences regarding the harm of excessive numbers of work visas being granted to foreign technical professionals. I have faced the prospect of homelessness several times since earning my Ph.D. As has been the case for most of the years since 1990, I do not have health insurance. I drive a 1991 Honda Civic with 220,000 miles on it. I repair that car to keep it going. Oh yes, I'm a 56 year old white male.

I think this situation needs to be reformed. I work for NumbersUSA in Arlington, Virginia as a modestly - paid information technology professional. I'm glad that my employer is helping almost 700,000 citizen activists to use the free online tools available at http://www.NumbersUSA.com to press for reform.

I sincerely hope that you will inform Daily Gazette readers more about this side of the story in future articles.

Hi Mark

We don't need a lecture on how to post comments.

What we need from yours and other publications like it is that your "reporters" and editors like yourself at least make some effort to appear that you are presenting different sides of an issue, rather than only one side. Clearly the immigration lawyers, well-heeled Big Business lobbying groups (e.g. "Compete America", US Chamber of Commerce, and other such groups) who financially benefit from displacement of well-educated, qualified American workers by lower-paid immigrant / Foreign workers had their say. Your publication slaps American workers of both sexes and of all ethnic groups in the face during a serious economic downturn, presenting a strongly biased point of view with no balance, and then you act surprised at the strong negative reaction?

How long to you think people like yourself are immune to being replaced by lower-paid foreign workers? There are plenty of people in India who speak and write English as well or better than you or your "reporters", who are willing to work for far less money than you are. Your time is coming. What American Manufacturing workers, High Tech workers, Nurses, etc. have experienced will become your own experience sooner or later. Are you familiar with the German word "Schadenfreude"?

It took me a while to find Ms Foss's article but I just read it. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I really didnt take her article to be anything other than a "report". And altho I agree with the blog posters, that immigration is/going to be our ruination, maybe Ms Foss could write an article on the other side of the coin, for it truly is a more important issue.
But this isnt just because of immigration, the blame lies heavily on big businesses looking to save a dime. Years ago i worked for an Insurance Agency who treated us like crap........they didnt care because if one of us quit, they could just hire another data processor for less money, and it went on for a very long time. I dont know for a fact, however I'm pretty sure they are one of the large companies who have now hired over seas workers as customer service.
If the hospitals were truly in need of good nurses, they should offer more money to Americans, not offer lower wages to Immigrants. After all, Its is we who return the money to our economy, not send it "back home to our families".
There are so many jobs outsourced that we can do right here in our own country. These companies want to save money? Ok.......here's an idea hire people from home. No overhead, no office space needed, no extra paperwork. Self employed people can do their own paperwork and file their own tax papers. Need an engineer? Hire one of our already qualified for consulting. Need a scientist? same thing. Fruit pickers? Hell, my son would pick fruit for 3 mos. at $9.80 an hour while going to college. We do NOT need to depend on Immigrants to do our jobs, It just takes some creativity on the parts of big business.